12
Jul

Seth and Matt talk religion and power | Atheist Experience 23.28



uh what can we do about it it's being done yeah first of all religion is on the decline the the nuns they you know Andy is here in the United States worldwide as well in some demographics but but this whole thing about religion about that wanted they got power and everything else right now there are people who are convinced that things are as bad as they could be and normally I would recommend they read like Steven Pinker's book they have better angels of our nature and stuff but there are people who poopoo all that as far as I'm concerned I'm living in the best of all times ever that seems redundant but the thing that strikes me is that there's a backlash there's a backlash from particularly from bigots who used to be in a position where they could push people around and exercise control and what they're seeing as their religions lose control over individuals and as society changes and we learn more is that they're not as able to do that as they were and so now you're getting louder voices more violent voices more violent people and part of this doesn't mean the situation's worse it's smaller pockets of people and it is from my perspective like the last flailing gasps of the Dragons esperan animal yeah and I look at that as positive because the data show that things are improving and that the power that rested with particulars of hateful people is diminishing I know it doesn't always feel like I prepare yourself because you're about to get a ton of emails from people telling you why the world is needs to be burned to the ground and I have to start over from square one I get it and I know how they got there and they're not entirely wrong and if if you take nothing else away because we're not we're not digging in on this topic there's too many other call not enough hours in the day the solution to most everything is better education but one thing that happened towards the end of the 19th century there were people who were their view on religion was we've solved that problem let the little peons keep that religion and stick with science and it created this this break between public perceptions of intellectuals it also set us back because those people were not on watch for what could happen so in the 1950s that's all of a sudden when we get the McCarthy era stuff and the national motto of the United States changes from e pluribus unum to In God We Trust it's when they start slapping it on the money in 1954 that backlash is because people did not continue to put pressure towards a more secular world you have to be vigilant not vigilantes I'm fine with violence I'm when it's warranted I'm fine with a qualified that for me rebellion like as as violence against violence with regard to self-defense we've we've sorted through this I don't know why some people find that it's particularly difficult by and large I didn't mean to derail you yeah and this was where we weren't gonna go but we will for a minute for me the question is okay when is violence justified well its first of all it's situational in defense of yourself in defense of others I'm fine with that well how far how long do I have to wait back does it's a fist have to be here does that to be here does have to be here what point and that's not always an easy question to answer but we strive for making sure that we have an imminent threat or clear and present danger and that we while everybody can almost everybody can empathize with the sort of vigilante justice that goes on if you're the parent of a child who was murdered by someone we understand that person's desire to seek vengeance there's a reason we don't allow it and it's because that vengeance isn't justice people make mistakes people lie there needs to be due process to make sure that everybody's rights are protected and we go that way oh well you're just saying you can sit around and talk everybody out of everything no I'm not or you want to hold hands with the enemy and yeah yeah that kind of thing I recognize that there are people whose minds are probably never going to be changed and yet just before the show I got an example of this which I posted a Facebook there was a show whose wife swap or trading spouses or something along those lines from 10 or more years ago where there was a woman there who was the god warrior and she became all kinds of memes and she was screeching they're all dark-sided and everybody made fun of her and she was like the poster girl for religious fear and in a slight way bigotry and there was a an article that I posted I wish I had it to share you can hit up my facebook page to find it it's from a gay news source in the UK she's now an LGBT ally has been seen you know at events and people talk to her and she's raising fight she's fundamentally changed who she is I don't know if she's given up religious belief or not I didn't dig in beyond that I don't know how much of her life has changed but it's absolute confirmation that people can and do change their minds some of us who've been involved in this for decades already knew that yeah because we get email on a regular basis like oh my gosh I had this weird belief or that word both of us were reasoned out of an unreasonable faith yeah I mean yeah we're walking talking truth is what murder thinks gives you tricky those is and not sticky for me but what I usually hear in return is the protests that will language his violence so that's not the violence in return is actually an act of self-defense and I get it language I mean we're both professional communicators the type of the type of language that I would say comes closest to violence is the language that's that's already prohibited you can't incite a riot you can't I mean Charles Manson essentially went to jail for sending other people to kill someone but his conviction was for murder and I may or not I'm not a lawyer I may or may be wrong on this but I don't think the felony murder rule is in effect I've always been under the impression that he was kind of railroaded a bit wait a minute before the email comes in like Matt Justice big Charles Manson I'm just asking a lot of first nikka delial point the guy we're definitely better off with him in jail and so was he right up until he died but now there's a felony murder rule so that if you are an instigator a participant or even the getaway driver and something where somebody you know is otherwise convicted a murder you can now do that I'm fine with that I we've done a lot to make sure that our laws are fair and just to make sure that we are running around you know with you know ad-hoc posses put together not by law enforcement provide me and you let's go out and we're gonna run this guy out on a race objectively deciding which words are violence right I mean that's a whole other conversation yeah and there are people there are people who I really agree with that yeah you know hey this is the right issue this is the right stance on the right issue the right stance yes and yet we disagree on tactics and that's it but you you often can't talk about that as I found out the other day and for all the people who are at this point cringing or wanting to hit yep that's what we expected from stuff him at whatever else I just I know there's probably nothing I can say right now that's going to necessarily affect this but just because somebody disagrees with the method that you're willing to do doesn't mean they're an enemy of yours and if you begin continuing or if you continue to alienate people just because they are not a hundred percent in line with you but you only got you only got 98% of me Seth you're not as super hero high or why are we so eager to turn allies or potential allies into enemies I I think our value systems are often the same we want a better world we want a more you want full equality for the LGBT community absolutely zero so we're you know we're on the same page we may disagree though on tactics and I just resist these purity tests that are in place that say that if if you do not advocate violence like a mob violence kind of a thing a proactive mod violence then you are essentially an enabler of the enemy I just reject those times it's almost a dogmatic religious model where the argument is essentially that those of us who would disagree are just waiting too long and the people who are acting early are terrified of what happens if you wait too long and I want to say I completely understand with that I can empathize I'm not going to on the people who are saying and doing this I haven't lived their lives and I don't have their frustration I just don't agree with the tactics that some people are using and so now that we've spent all that time on a subject we were gonna go to well I don't know if you guys think I'm gonna like looking at the audience I mean you can't see their hands Johansson maybe guys engaged in some of this like have you seen depolarization generally their hands nobody it's mostly for me I'm just looking I see a lot of head nodding

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33 Comments

  • Steven Ross says:

    As Religion declines the more intense voices and violent actions could start to rise. The Bible is a great resource to justify some pretty violent things.

  • axer351 says:

    Yes, religion is fading. However, it will die a very hard death. These smaller groups of radical theist will try to burn the place down to cause their god to come and take them to a better place. Do not underestimate the power these radicals have.

  • Ferrari King says:

    Thank you Matt for your words here. They will lash out as much as they can before they are gone but the religious and the bigots will soon have no power.

  • Ahimsa42 says:

    as Matt said, the key is better education yet he seems to refuse to take this tact in regards to himself in a certain extremely critical area. people CAN and do change-perhaps Matt & Seth will themselves wake up one day and begin to start aligning their own actions with their beliefs when it comes to violence against non-human animals in the name of a selfish, trivial momentary taste sensation…

  • Alec Wood says:

    We also need to remember that religion held sway for thousands of years, and in the Christian world at least you could only really be openly atheist for the last 150 years or so without consequences. We've still got a long way to go to rid ourselves of dangerous superstition.

  • LEAN BIEN says:

    A N T I F A

  • R Stedler says:

    Matt is right
    This is the best of times to have been alive! We are so lucky!

  • Harley Hill says:

    114 likes and 114 comments perfectly balanced as all things should be

  • John McGuire says:

    Dude Moist Critikal just did a video about God Warrior

  • The Jackanapes says:

    "We're living in the best of all times…"

    Yeah. Relative privation. Pinker, as much as I like him, and the entire enterprise behind that movement is a bunch of a gaslighting in an attempt to rationalize the perpetuation of *religious metanarratives" in the guise of secularism. THey replace "God" with "nature" and "god's plan/will" with "natural selection."

    It's all the same bullshit. There's no God, and "Nature" is a blind, unguided, pointless thing, ultimately. Even if our particular universe was "designed by someone" – we end up in the Munchaussen's Trilemma WRT all these purpose/goal/meaning games.

    As "great" as some people have it today this is a meaningless comparative and relative "greatness."
    There is no such thing as chronic joy or pleasure – but pain and suffering is a natural and almost unavoidable chronic issue.
    What's worse is there is incredible social pressure and stigma against reporting unhappiness. This is how genes propagate as Humans: by "might makes right" fallacies.

    "The solution is better education"

    I wish.

    There is one way to stop all of it. Stop having children. But virtually none of you has the fucking balls to do that. You get hormone-drunk and fuck, and before you know it: offspring. Then you reason backwards, "Oh I meant to do that… My legacy… blah blah blah"'

    And to make matters worse, the psychofuck clown-car of "Western Civilization" turns this retarded ape behavior producing offspring into a magical, religious imposition of some bizarre duty on said offspring to account for its own existence via some kind of contra-causal responsibility

    Forcing conscious beings to exist from a state of affairs in which they did not exist as conscious sufferers is the fundamental, ultimate violence. You've done NOTHING to address this, in fact you've exacerbated it.

    Even you atheists turn back into religious morons when the DNA script gets exposed.

    BULLSHIT. Knock it off.

    THings are not "better."
    There are more of us than ever before, and there are more suffers because of it.

    Humans are like a culture in a petri-dish, drunk on our fossil-fuels and exponentially over-populating our environment.

  • Tommy Harring says:

    It's interesting that America embraced Christianity and became the symbol of freedom in the world.

  • FireBall says:

    Thank God I'm an atheist.

  • cshubs says:

    Is it me or have these vids been getting even better lately?

  • Pastor Pickle says:

    John 3:3 King James Version (KJV)

    3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

  • David#323 says:

    Some things won't change if People no longer believe in God and Jesus. The Catholic empire is an economic system that no longer needs God and Jesus for it to continue. God and Jesus were needed to get it started. Catholics always tell how they run Schools, hospitals and old age homes to help the community. But they are run at the going market rate and those who work there would continue working there as long as they get paid even if the God and Jesus logo were removed

  • Vladimir Vcelar says:

    Even bullshit has a shelf life!

  • nicc says:

    whether god exists or not we dont know, im not gonna be arrogant and claim to know either way

  • Mr.Review says:

    Anytime an atheist quotes Matt Dillahunty as validation…I'm just going to give you the same reply "a maintenance man at an apartment complex in Texas is your Authority. Lol." …

    … I'd rather learn from terminal degree holding Scholars than some man who fixes sinks for a living.

  • MrAbletospeak says:

    In the UK fewer people really believe in these pixies.

  • Tonya Ratlaff says:

    This show is so funny, they're always trying to mislead people. They know very well that the prediction for 2050, is atheism compared to people who believe in God will shrink.
    This is why they worded it the way they did, while compared to atheist more people will believe in God than ever before.
    Not as many people will attend church, and most of the reasoning for this is because of things like the internet. We can now get services online, we could talk to other religious people's all around the world. Some other reasons why, is the churches not exclusively but I will use the Catholic Church as an example being it's the biggest. The reason why so many people are moving away from the Catholic Church, it's not because of Christianity. Just the opposite, it's the Pope with his leftist liberal globalist ideology, that defies natural law and God. It's not the rejection of God, but the rejection other people pretending to be with God. The church needs to rid itself of homosexual child rapist who pretend to be Christian so they can become priests and rape children. Atheist in Western culture that are brainwashed under a cult, don't hate the fact that people attend church services. They hate the fact that they believe in God, especially Christianity, because this is the reasoning people obey natural law. These liberal leftist atheist can't stand natural law, they can't stand humanity living by the code God has given us. 60% of the atheist on here and my numbers might be too low, are probably homosexuals who reject God because God rejects their lifestyle. If they were only atheist for scientific reasons, most of them wouldn't support the crazy LGBT ideology of transgenderism. 67 million Christians now living in China and growing the fastest growing religion
    while all Nordic countries are still majority Christian, and most have a very small atheist minority average about 10%, this is because this cult-like influence on the public school systems. Good news for the Nordic countries is that Its now rejecting for the first time that I can think of is this liberal atheistic ideology, even Nordic countries are leaning nationalist populist, like the rest of Europe, America and Canada

  • PRHILL9696 says:

    There is a reason everyone misses the good old days. hell even kids today wish they had been born decades ago. Religion may be going away although I dont see it but either way the world is fucked up more than ever

  • Zarkow says:

    "Language is violence" is often said by the extreme-left/SJW, to justify violence by their foot-soldiers Antifa.

  • Dom_90 says:

    luckily with the advancements in basically any legitimate scientific field and the constant growth of wealth and education, religions will cease to exist exponantionally fast 🙂

  • Bryan Jones says:

    Matt's actually talking about the great falling away as told in the bible about end times…According to the bible Athiests and Christians will unite and come back to the truth and prepare for the return of Christ…So indirectly this show is preparing the way for the second coming and the destruction of the elites who are in bed with Satan….Well only if you believe in a book (bible) of fairytales. Remember Matt was a hardcore Christian and in the back of his head, there must be some confusion over whether god is or not really there.

    From my perspective, and being a ex Christian, god is nothing more than a figure in a book written by men who feared anything they didn't understand…Superstition at it's best

  • Scott 0 says:

    Big podcast fan. Finally found the channel. 👍 I feel religiousness is a biological function to allow people to accept their eventual death. And that's OK. 👌 I don't believe in heaven because your memories stay with your brain. 🧠 An afterlife is pointless without your memories. I felt I needed to share that. Keep up the great work. 👍

  • anthony toscano says:

    Religion Was invented to control the over whelming amount of ignorant people. It's true the majority of people need a leader. What is not true is a fictional character, Made up by the slave owners 2,000 years ago. To make BOOGY MEN into hero's. To have people in power, use or believe this garbage is true. The best part we give tax breaks to fictional leaders, writers and speakers in religion, To make donations at the same place they receive the tax break. Everything about the Constitution says one thing, but the religious right says, god super seeds everything, even with no evidence of any god. TO SAY ONE IS GULLIBLE is a gross under statement when it comes to religious beliefs.
    THE BIG LIE IN RELIGION; FREE WILL

  • gordon says:

    This country is in the grip of religious zealotry. Until an atheist can openly run for Governor or President, I'll continue to believe that.

  • gepisar says:

    One thing i did want to mention about the show: We, the viewers, only get to see the callers fallacies, the looney bits, the failure of cognition, bigotry and obscene prejudices. It DOES leave a lasting impression and its HARD to remind myself that this is not typical… but lately, in combination with watching things like Damage Report, Beau of the 5th, Cult of Dusty, that it DOES seem the norm. Alters my interactions with people. I almost expect them to be an asshole…. which makes me one…

  • Iamsteezze says:

    You’re right. Religious people are scared they won’t be able to manipulate others soon.The world is waking up

  • David Anewman says:

    You're correct, America is becoming dumbed down thanks to people like you, Matt. You take after your master, The Destroyer, Apollyon, also known as Satan. Thanks a lot.

  • William Oliver says:

    Thank you, gentlemen, for your voices of reason during a period of intense reactionary rhetoric.

  • KO4 Shittas says:

    No

  • D. Sparks says:

    You guys rule…as usual 🙂

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